I listened to the Dev Roundtable today and though this deserved a post when I didn't see anything here. It was stated that both the Caravan System and the Mentoring System will not be in for launch. I'm a little sad as the caravan system seemed like soemthing unique, but mostly I am happy to see that the team is stategically making decisions to ensure they can move forward timely. Overall I think it is a positive thing to push less essential subsystems into a post launch status to keep the momentum going.
Thanks for the Round table video to let us know though!
Those items will make a good 1st expansion. Need something to look forward to instead of just more zones and possible higher levels.
I wouldn't be worried if Bard is in there, only because I don't intend to play one :) I would have played a Necro but that will have to be for later.
Yeah, that video was a bit disappointing in some of the updates. I was hoping more of the differences would remain.
https://www.pantheonmmo.com/game/pantheon_difference/ .
An MMO Evolved - no specified mechanic
Atmosphere/Climate System - glyphs (~resists)
The Living Codex - a spell book / mastery points
Dynamic NPC Encounter Groups - gone / out / post-launch (as of June 4, 2020)
NPC Dispositions and Behaviors - single dispositions only (as of June 4, 2020)
colored mana - gone / out / post-launch
progeny system - gone / out / post-launch
situational gear - no specified mechanic
perception system - trigger-check quests
So, aside from colored mana being a presumption due to no info in years, does that look about right?
Personally, I've seen many/most/all/some of what remains in several other games, already, in various forms.
For all the talk from VR over the years about how seriously they are taking the idea of the 2 hour timeframe in which the average player should be able to accomplish something, removing the caravan system just kicks that entire idea in the ass. With Caravans you had a mechanic whereby someone can link up with an NPC caravan in Thronefast, set his destination for Skargol, log out for the night and return the next evening at the caravan dropoff point near Skagol ready to adventure with friends. But with Caravans gone, that player will now use up their limited time traveling to Skargol, accomplishing little other than just getting there. Remember, travel is still not designed to be quick or easy so that Thronefast-Skargol road will take a good amount of time.
At this point I would trade Perception for Caravans.
vjek said:Yeah, that video was a bit disappointing in some of the updates. I was hoping more of the differences would remain.
https://www.pantheonmmo.com/game/pantheon_difference/ .An MMO Evolved - no specified mechanic
Atmosphere/Climate System - glyphs (~resists)
The Living Codex - a spell book / mastery points
Dynamic NPC Encounter Groups - gone / out / post-launch (as of June 4, 2020)
NPC Dispositions and Behaviors - single dispositions only (as of June 4, 2020)
colored mana - gone / out / post-launch
progeny system - gone / out / post-launch
situational gear - no specified mechanic
perception system - trigger-check questsSo, aside from colored mana being a presumption due to no info in years, does that look about right?
Personally, I've seen many/most/all/some of what remains in several other games, already, in various forms.
We got an official statement that colored mana was out a few years back.
Where did you see that progeny was out? CP has mentioned it in passing a few times in the last year. I was under the impression it was still a thing.
There was a system mentioned that we havent heard much about for guilds. Did they call it an infamy system? I only remember that being mentioned very briefly in the past and nothing even close to concrete until this stream.
It seems odd to bring in a newer system at the expense of systems they have been talking about for 5ish years. This seems very late in the game...but I guess we aren't that far along yet. I think systems like mentoring and caravan, even the advanced group finder, were probably pushed by Brad...while perception was Joppas.
Edit: Deleted inacurate info (or at least info that I couldn't confirm!)
@vandraad I agree that the caravan was a cool idea and would save time for players that have limitted time. But, as a player in that category (I rarely even have 2 hours per sitting at this point in my life) I will say that I consider travelling to a location "accomplishing something." Of course that is my opinion and many people might consider travel a waste of time. I just thought I'd throw my opinion out there as someone who will certainly have limitted time per setting. People like me will just have to plan accordingly. If I want to play in a zone that's far away part of my process will be planning the travel time to get there. Once I'm there, I'll have accomplished that part of my plan.
Now the argument would be "how did your character grow stronger" during that 2 hour session. Technically it won't grow stronger, but it will be in a place for my next play session where it can grow stronger.
Side bonus - as I travel I'll get to see cool things. Maybe even die along the way, or meet a new friend, or ... fall off a boat? lol
Ranarius said:@philo In the video he mentions that progeny was planned for post launch (which makes sense since most people won't be using it for a while anyway).
Do you have a timestamp for that? I dont know how I missed it? I definitely heard no caravan and no mentor system. Progeny wasnt included unless I missed it. (I was having some buffering issues so that is probably why...)
Not having the caravan system in for launch is concerning for me as well. I have been under the assumption that it would fill the slot of a group finder tool as well as a few other purposes. If we have to start with spamming chat channels to find groups I think thats going to lead to a poor user experience.
Perception is going to require a lot of hand entry to give it any content. If perception is really lore only that you can realistically skip if you are a min maxer then I think its return on time investment to develop is fairly low. Not that it isn't cool its just that each and every script can only be used by a character once and then without really any significant reward. Just in the time investment of writing all the readable scripts the first time is going to be a huge investment and that's before you create all the trigger condition code.
The caravan system would be central to a characters game time and used each and every game session to some degree. This means that the development time impact per session vs time spent creating the content is many orders of magnitude higher for the caravan system vs a lore only Perception system.
This of-course changes if Perception becomes a main line tool for nearly every discovery or knowledge check and only the lore portion is non main line.
Do you have a timestamp for that? I dont know how I missed it? I definitely heard no caravan and no mentor system. Progeny wasnt included unless I missed it. (I was having some buffering issues so that is probably why...)
I have spent the last 20 minutes trying to find it so I could reference it...and I can't seem to find it. I must have been confused and lumped the mentor and progeny together in my mind.
Ranarius said:Do you have a timestamp for that? I dont know how I missed it? I definitely heard no caravan and no mentor system. Progeny wasnt included unless I missed it. (I was having some buffering issues so that is probably why...)
I have spent the last 20 minutes trying to find it so I could reference it...and I can't seem to find it. I must have been confused and lumped the mentor and progeny together in my mind.
Fair enough, I didnt hear that either.
So, as of now, I'm still thinking progeny is in since Joppa has mentioned it a few times lately.
Vandraad said:With Caravans you had a mechanic whereby someone can link up with an NPC caravan in Thronefast, set his destination for Skargol, log out for the night and return the next evening at the caravan dropoff point near Skagol ready to adventure with friends.
I don't like the sounds of Caravans. It seems like a risk free way of travelling. If it is a Caravan with friends, the friends take all the risks of dieing multiple times to get to the destination and you log in the next day having not taken any risk at all. They may have died 5 times in the journey and you get the benfit of their risk and loss of XP by not being logged on.
It sounds like hey lets go there, ok instead of all 5 of us dieing we will join a caravan and moninate someone to run there, then once your there we can log back on and you take the risks.
But I can see how it would also help with friends staying together. I just prefer doing it old school where all take the risk of the adventure.
Caravan was there with Colored Mana for me. Not overly important and with a concept that wasn't all that clear. Mentoring I don't normally like but even less so here because Progeny does that and does it MUCH better.
Mentoring is an artificial way to keep zones somewhat populated but few people ever do it. With Progeny, it's organic and you have many more people willing thus keeping all zones organically populated.
These are good cuts but understand some people may be let down.
I kinda thought the caravan was just another loop hole to effortless travel. I think it goes against the idea that travel matters and is important in not making the world feel small. i'm still not even sure how it was supposed to work you pay or group up for some travel service log out? What happens if you log back in before the travel destination is complete? Is it risk free? If you implement a caravan than why not teleports to every city or major zone? Travel is supposed to require time and efort and play into the choices you make I might be in the minority here but im hoping to limit effortless travel as much as possible at least for as long as possible
I'm also glad there out, and hope they don't put them back IN any time soon. For the same reasons as stated already,
Caravan for easy free travel making the world small and Porting classes useless.
Mentoring for a bunch of work that will get seldom used and also be in competition with Progeny which I find to be a Genius of a concept, IF they take that far enough!
I hope they reconsider with mentoring. I would have been using it constantly to play with various friends that don't play as much as me. I can't possibly maintain enough alts for all the possible friend/level combos.
Mentoring is totally separate from Progeny for me. They may both achieve some replay, but the main point of mentoring for me was the ability to level down to play with friends.
Caravans I wasn't so bothered about. I don't mind travelling to friends to play, but level difference is an often insurmountable barrier to playing with friends.
disposalist said:I hope they reconsider with mentoring. I would have been using it constantly to play with various friends that don't play as much as me. I can't possibly maintain enough alts for all the possible friend/level combos.
Mentoring is totally separate from Progeny for me. They may both achieve some replay, but the main point of mentoring for me was the ability to level down to play with friends.
Caravans I wasn't so bothered about. I don't mind travelling to friends to play, but level difference is an often insurmountable barrier to playing with friends.
Same for me. I wouldn't mind if the feature gets pushed back though, since in the beginning everyone will be fairly close together in levels anyway. So mentoring could be added in an expansion IMO.
Sarim said:disposalist said:I hope they reconsider with mentoring. I would have been using it constantly to play with various friends that don't play as much as me. I can't possibly maintain enough alts for all the possible friend/level combos.
Mentoring is totally separate from Progeny for me. They may both achieve some replay, but the main point of mentoring for me was the ability to level down to play with friends.
Caravans I wasn't so bothered about. I don't mind travelling to friends to play, but level difference is an often insurmountable barrier to playing with friends.
Same for me. I wouldn't mind if the feature gets pushed back though, since in the beginning everyone will be fairly close together in levels anyway. So mentoring could be added in an expansion IMO.
When a feature gets pushed, it's usually for months, though, and early on is when people progress levels quickly. It will also be when lots of friends will be trying out the game.
At higher levels, with slower progression and when people's gaming schedules have settled, it's easier to cope without it.
I suppose soon after launch you can start a new character for every friend that starts and it might not get too bad and out-of-sync too quickly, but in some ways, near launch is the perfect time to have a mentoring system.
*shrug* I doubt its ommission will put many people off playing - it won't be the end of the world - I simply think that mentoring is an excellent tool for keeping friends together, so the sooner it's in, the better.
disposalist said:I hope they reconsider with mentoring. I would have been using it constantly to play with various friends that don't play as much as me. I can't possibly maintain enough alts for all the possible friend/level combos.
I can see as being handy, but how to implement it would be an interesting concept. If your 20 and level down to 10, would you have average level 10 armor and stats, but when you were actually level 10 you might have had below average armor at that stage, so your leveled down level 10 might then be considered a twink? I could see Power Leveling comming there?
eg at level 10 you might have has an AC 5 brestplace. At level 20 you found a 25AC brestplate. But when you mentor down does it become AC 10 for the grouping purpose as thats the best AC brestplace for a level 10 char or stay at 25 or some other variable. Does the system keep track of your stats every level you ding so mentors you down to what you had at that level.
I'm also a bit deceived with mentoring pushed away as I don't know if my friends will play as much as me, and I can't keep up alts at all level range.
Now it might not be an issue until months after release so pushing it for later won't hurt me much, as long as it's still planned.
Boulda said:disposalist said:I hope they reconsider with mentoring. I would have been using it constantly to play with various friends that don't play as much as me. I can't possibly maintain enough alts for all the possible friend/level combos.
I can see as being handy, but how to implement it would be an interesting concept. If your 20 and level down to 10, would you have average level 10 armor and stats, but when you were actually level 10 you might have had below average armor at that stage, so your leveled down level 10 might then be considered a twink? I could see Power Leveling comming there?
eg at level 10 you might have has an AC 5 brestplace. At level 20 you found a 25AC brestplate. But when you mentor down does it become AC 10 for the grouping purpose as thats the best AC brestplace for a level 10 char or stay at 25 or some other variable. Does the system keep track of your stats every level you ding so mentors you down to what you had at that level.
Thats the system I am hoping they go for, its not perfect but as long as the design goal is to make the high level who has mentored down average by some standard then its already better that almost anything else i've seen regarding anti power leveling and removing the fun of the game for other non mentoring group members who seek a challenge.
disposalist said:I suppose soon after launch you can start a new character for every friend that starts and it might not get too bad and out-of-sync too quickly, but in some ways, near launch is the perfect time to have a mentoring system.
I think just the opposite. At launch everyone is on equal footing, the level spread between players is not that much. When an MMO has been out for several months or years is usually when you want a "mentor" type system in, as you have a greater portion of the community at/near max level, and generally with new content is when you get an influx of new and returning players. Obviously that doesn't solve the situation like you described, with friends who are consistent players that can't devote as much time to the game, but I'm also not so sure that mentoring is as useful in there either, as depending on the leveling rate, they might not be that far behind you anyway.